Bush on $4 gas

[glfredrick]

Originally Posted by shamaal

Micro economists are people who are wrong about specific things
Macroeconomists are wrong about things in general

And Liberals are the ones that hire both and are wrong about everything...

[gavin]

As far as what others pay, it's a bit different. Nobody else relies on personal vehicles like we do in the US. It's big here, for one, and everything is far away. Yes, part of it is the standard of living we are accustomed to, but that's why it's the USA. So we can go out on the weekend and travel several hundred miles

give me a break, we have a population that is about 1/15 of USA and a land mass almost 90% of the USA

as for the cost of oil it is consumerism that is causing the hike in prices just about everything you buy has some form of oil in it unless you walk down to the local fruit and veg shop and buy groceries that were grown by the local farmer and he delivered them in a wheel barrow
petrol is just the most noticeable increase due to the oil price

[Rick]

I'm new to all this Marxist thinking.

Really? I would think Jesus would have been much closer to a Marxist than to a Capitalist in HIS thinking? Wouldn't he?

[Sojourner]

Originally Posted by gavin

give me a break, we have a population that is about 1/15 of USA and a land mass almost 90% of the USA

as for the cost of oil it is consumerism that is causing the hike in prices just about everything you buy has some form of oil in it unless you walk down to the local fruit and veg shop and buy groceries that were grown by the local farmer and he delivered them in a wheel barrow
petrol is just the most noticeable increase due to the oil price

Precisely! It is a matter of supply and demand! Everything we do here in the U.S. involves oil and gasoline. It is inevitable that the price would go up because the oil cartel SETS the prices, NOT the U.S. government! Just how do you think it would work if OUR government told the middle east oil cartels that they COULDN'T raise the prices of their oil???

[glfredrick]

Originally Posted by Rick

Really? I would think Jesus would have been much closer to a Marxist than to a Capitalist in HIS thinking? Wouldn't he?

Not hardly... Jesus was not against wealth or the increase of such, nor was He against persons that used their wealth in society. (And the next thing you are going to do is paste a bunch of verses that you've publicly said that you DO NOT believe in, but which you feel demonstrate your point in order to refute my point. What you will not do, however, is see the big picture of those verses, nor the implications of them for your own life.)

[shamaal]

Precisely! It is a matter of supply and demand!

Exactamundo!

So the next question is can the US government influence demand or supply.

Hmmmm.......

Just a couple off the top of my head.

Code of Federal Regulations - Regulations to strengthen or weaken regulation of petroleum production, processing or refining. I can cite numerous instances if so desired. It is through these regulations that oil companies stifle competition in the United States. (See 30CFR250 for offshore oil policies - my speciality)

Tax Legislation and interpretation. In 2004 oil companies were given $10.4B in tax breaks. The senate voted last week to rescind. It is through tax incentives that the federal government implements energy policies. Again zillions of examples.

US government policy - statecraft. The USG makes deals for exchange of oil for US products, imposition of trade embargoes, most favored nation status, import fees and quotas, etc. Agian numerous examples are available.

The world of oil and energy production is vast and complex, all driven by supply and demand. Competition has been reduced through government intervention to ensure a steady supply.

[Sojourner]

The major problem with your statement is that, when Clinton was in office he depleted our reserve supply to almost nothing to keep the "false impression" that we would not be affected by what was happening overseas with the middle east oil cartels. OPEC is now more powerful because they KNOW we are more dependent on them than ever before. President Bush inherited a major mess from Clinton and then had to deal with the problems of 9/11 less than 8 months after his inauguration, not to mention the Enron fiasco that followed that less than a month after 9/11. Truthfully, I am surprised that we are not seeing even HIGHER prices at the pump, considering how much Americans LOVE their recreational vehicles (including all of those SUV's)!!

[Rick]

Originally Posted by glfredrick

(And the next thing you are going to do is paste a bunch of verses that you've publicly said that you DO NOT believe in, but which you feel demonstrate your point in order to refute my point. What you will not do, however, is see the big picture of those verses, nor the implications of them for your own life.)

Since you already know the verses which I would have pasted in here, I won't. However I will say this is yet another example of Christian sects picking and choosing at will, to build a case for their individual life style.

Again, maybe it's God who wants me to point out those very passages to you, so you will re-evaluate your interpretation of the bible.

Given the plethora of choices - Catholics, Baptists, Lutherans, Seventh Day Adventists, Jehovah's Witness, Presbyterians, Pentecostals, Mennonite, and many, many more, nearly everyone can find a flavor that suits their lifestyle even woman and homosexuals.

I know, I know, only a small percentage of those who call themselves Christians are really doing it right and you're positive you know which choice that is. As do the Jews, Muslims, Buddhists, Catholics, Baptists, Lutherans, Seventh Day Adventists, Jehovah's Witness, Presbyterians, Pentecostals, Mennonite, and many, many more.

[Sojourner]

I would like to interject the following (though it's a bit off topic) by James Henry Leigh Hunt:

Abou Ben Adhem

Abou Ben Adhem (may his tribe increase!)
Awoke one night from a deep dream of peace,
And saw, within the moonlight in his room,
Making it rich, and like a lily in bloom,
An angel writing in a book of gold:—
Exceeding peace had made Ben Adhem bold,
And to the Presence in the room he said
"What writest thou?"—The vision raised its head,
And with a look made of all sweet accord,
Answered "The names of those who love the Lord."

"And is mine one?" said Abou. "Nay, not so,"
Replied the angel. Abou spoke more low,
But cheerly still, and said "I pray thee, then,
Write me as one that loves his fellow men."

The angel wrote, and vanished. The next night
It came again with a great wakening light,
And showed the names whom love of God had blessed,
And lo! Ben Adhem's name led all the rest.

As a Christian, this is my philosophy and it is thanks to my mother who read this to me as a child. I think the world could stand to read this and live by it! JMHO but we need to stop BASHING and start working together! Don't you think?

[Rick]

President Bush inherited a major mess from Clinton and then had to deal with the problems of 9/11 less than 8 months after his inauguration,

What exactly did Bush start to do in those 8 month before 9/11 to fix the "major mess" Clinton left him? After all of the rhetoric from the election cycle you would thing Bush would have been incredibly busy trying to rebuild our military, strengthen our southern border, etc.

What exactly did Bush do in those 8 months prior to 9/11 that would help our nation to get back on it's feet after the Clinton regime nearly ruined America?

I found a list:

1. Significantly eased field-testing controls of genetically engineered crops.

2. Cut federal spending on libraries by $39 million.

3. Cut $35 million in funding for doctors to get advanced pediatric training.

4. Cut funding for research into renewable energy sources by 50%.

5. Revoked rules that reduced the acceptable levels of arsenic in drinking water.

6. Blocked rules that would require federal agencies to offer bilingual assistance to non-English speaking persons. This, from a candidate who would readily fire-up his Spanish-speaking skills in front of would-be Hispanic voters.

7. Proposed to eliminate new marine protections for the Channel Islands and the coral reefs of northwest Hawaii (please see San Francisco Chronicle, April 6, 2001).

8. Cut funding for research into cleaner, more efficient cars and trucks by 28%

9. Suspended rules that would have strengthened the government's ability to deny contracts to companies that violated workplace safety, environmental and other federal laws.

10. Approved the sending of letters by Interior Department appointee Gale Norton to state officials soliciting suggestions for opening up national monuments for oil and gas drilling, coal mining, and foresting.

11. Appointed John Negroponte -- an unindicted high-level Iran Contra figure to the post of United Nations Ambassador.

12. Abandoned a campaign pledge to invest $100 million for rainforest conservation.

13. Reduced by 86% the Community Access Program for public hospitals, clinics and providers of
care for people without insurance.

14. Rescinded a proposal to increase public access to information about the potential consequences resulting from chemical plant accidents.

15. Suspended rules that would require hardrock miners to clean up sites on public lands.

16. Cut $60 million from a Boy's and Girl's Clubs of America program for public housing.

17. Proposed to eliminate a federal program, designed and successfully used in Seattle, to help communities prepare for natural disasters.

18. Pulled out of the 1997 Kyoto Treaty global warming agreement.

19. Cut $200 million of work force training for dislocated workers.

20. Eliminated funding for the Wetlands Reserve Program, which encourages farmers to maintain wetlands habitat on their property.

21. Cut program to provide childcare to low-income families as they move from welfare to work.

22. Cut a program that provided prescription contraceptive coverage to federal employees (though it still pays for Viagra).

23. Cut $700 million in capital funds for repairs in public housing.

24. Appointed Otto Reich -- an un-indicted high-level Iran Contra figure -- to Assistant Secretary of State for Inter-American Affairs.

25. Cut the budget of the Environmental Protection Agency by $500 million.

26. Proposed to curtail the ability of groups to sue in order to get an animal placed on the Endangered Species List.

27. Rescinded the rule that mandated increased energy-saving efficiency regulations for central air conditioners and heat pumps.

28. Repealed workplace ergonomic rules designed to improve worker health and safety.

29. Abandoned campaign pledge to regulate carbon dioxide, the waste gas that contributes to global warming.

30. Banned federal aid to international family planning programs that offer abortion counseling with other independent funds.

31. Closed the White House Office for Women's Health Initiatives and Outreach.

32. Nominated David Lauriski -- an ex-mining company executive --- to post of Assistant Secretary of Labor for Mine Safety and Health.

33. Approved a controversial plan by Interior Secretary Gale Norton to auction oil and gas development tracts off the coast of eastern Florida.

34. Announced intention to open up Montana's Lewis and Clark National Forest to oil and drilling.

35. Proposes to re-draw boundaries of nation's monuments, which would technically allow oil and gas drilling outside of national monuments.

36. Gutted the White House AIDS Office.

37. Renegotiated a free trade agreement with Jordan to eliminate workers' rights and safeguards for the environment.

38. Will no longer seek guidance from The American Bar Association in recommendations for the federal judiciary appointments.

39. Appointed recycling foe Lynn Scarlett as Undersecretary of the Interior..

40. Took steps to abolish the White House Council on Environmental Quality.

41. Cut the Community Oriented Policing Services program.

42. Allowed Interior Secretary Gale Norton to shelve citizen-led grizzly bear re-introduction plan scheduled for Idaho and Montana wilderness.

43. Continues to hold up federal funding for stem cell research projects.

44. Makes sure convicted misdemeanor drug users cannot get financial aid for college, though convicted murderers can.

45. Refused to fund continued cleanup of uranium-slag heap in Utah.

46. Refused to fund continued litigation of the government's tobacco company lawsuit.

47. Proposed a $2 trillion tax cut, 43% of which will go to the wealthiest 1 % of Americans.

48. Signed a bill making it harder for poor and middle-class Americans to file for bankruptcy, even in the case of daunting medical bills.

49. Appointed a Vice President quoted as saying, lf you want to do something about carbon dioxide emissions, then you ought to build nuclear power plants (Meet the Press)

50. Appointed Diana Roth to the Council of Economic Advisers. (There is no gender gap in pay, Boston Globe, March 28, 2001.)

51. Appointed Kay Cole James, an opponent of affirmative action, to direct the Office of Personnel Management.

52. Cut $15.7 million earmarked for states to investigate cases of child abuse and neglect.

53. Helped kill a law designed to make it tougher for teenagers to get credit cards.

54. Proposed elimination of the Reading is Fundamental program that gives free books to poor children.

55.1s pushing for development of small nuclear arms to attack deeply buried targets and weapons. This would violate the Comprehensive Test Ban Treaty.

56. Proposes to nominate Jeffrey Sutton, the attorney responsible for a recent case weakening the Americans with Disabilities Act, to federal appeals court judgeship.

57. Proposes to reverse regulation protecting 60 million acres of national forest from logging and road building.

58. Eliminated funding for the We the People education program which taught school children about the Constitution, the Bill of Rights and citizenship.

59. Appointed John Bolton, who opposes nonproliferation treaties and the UN, to Undersecretary of State for Arms Control and International Security.

60. Nominated Linda Fisher, an executive with Monsanto, for the number-two job at the Environmental Protection Agency.

61. Nominated Michael McConnell, leading critic of the separation of church and state, to a federal judgeship.

62. Nominated Terrence Boyle, an ardent opponent of civil rights, to a federal judgeship.

63. Canceled 2004 deadline for automakers to develop prototype high mileage cars.

64. Nominated Harvey Pitts, a lawyer for a teen sex video distributor, to head SEC.

65. Nominated John Walters, a strong opponent of prison drug treatment programs, to be Drug Tsar. (Washington Post, May 16, 2001.)

66. Nominated J. Steven Giles, an oil and coal lobbyist, for Deputy Secretary of the Interior.

67. Nominated Bennett Raley, who advocates repealing the Endangered Species Act, for Assistant Secretary for Water and Science

68. Is seeking the dismissal of class-action lawsuit filed in the US against Japan by Asian women forced to work as sex slaves during WWII.

69. Earmarked $4 million in new federal grant money for HIV and drug abuse prevention programs to go only to religious groups and not secular equivalents.

70. Reduced the Low Income Home Assistance Program by 40%; it aided low-income individuals who need assistance paying energy bills.

71. Nominated Ted Olson, who has repeatedly lied about his involvement with the Scaiffe-funded Arkansas Project to bring down Bill Clinton, for Solicitor General.

72. Nominated Terrance Boyle, a foe of civil rights, to a federal judgeship..

73. Proposes to ease permit process, including environmental considerations, for refinery, nuclear and hydroelectric dam construction. (Washington Post, May 18, 2001.)

74. Proposes to give government the authority to take private property through eminent domain for power lines.

75. Proposes that $1.2 billion in funding for alternative renewable energy come from selling oil and gas lease tracts in the Alaska National Wildlife Reserve.

76. Plans on serving genetically engineered foods at all official government functions.

77. Forced out Forest Service chief Mike Dombeck and appointed a timber industry lobbyist.

[Sojourner]

Here's some Clinton mistakes for you:

Clinton's Red Herring: The Accusations of Congressional Isolationism

[Sojourner]

Here's something else for you to consider:

"The Deep Ocean Energy Resources (DOER) Act will correct the mistakes of the Clinton administration, which failed to set price thresholds that would ensure royalties would be paid in times of high oil and gas prices for oil and gas leases in 1998 and 1999. This Clinton Administration mistake cost taxpayers billions of dollars. The oil companies haven't paid a dime in royalties from those leases to the rightful owner of the oil- the American people."

[Rick]

Why are we talking about Bill Clinton? He's yesterday's news. We have been led by Bush and Co. for nearly a decade. We are living their promises right now...

[Sojourner]

You want more?

http://emperors-clothes.com/reports/news/as100103.htm

The Christian Orthodox Serbs should be backed by the Bush Administration to contain an ever-expanding Islamic terrorism that is emerging in Europe, using the Balkans as a transit route to strike out at the United States. Former President Clinton made three strategic mistakes that led to 9/11, and all three mistakes of the Clinton Administration were influenced by Saudi Arabia.

1- The suppression of the military force of the Serbs in the area. The Saudi regime pushed the Clinton Administration to fuel anti-Western Jihad in the heart of Europe and backed and financed the Islamic rebels in the Balkans. To win this horrific war against terrorism - which is costing the US every day 3-4 casualties, destabilizing the West, and helping al-Qaida expand its presence in Europe - the U.S. should help create the re-emergence of the Serb factor in Yugoslavia that will help suppress and prevent Islamic fundamentalist euphoria gaining a better foothold in Europe, en route to hitting the United States. This should be done even at the cost of releasing Milosevic, if his liberation will enable the U.S. to win this war on terrorism.

The breakdown of the Serbs and the emergence of the Bosnian Muslim government, backed by Saudi Arabia, was one of the causes that galvanized and consolidated Islamic fundamentalism, encouraging it to hit the United States on September 11th 2001. This balance of force should be rectified to the advantage of the Serbs, as the security of the world cannot wait for the impact of another 9/11 and the ramifications of Islamic terrorism against the West.

2- The betrayal of Southern Lebanon and its surrender to Syria by the Clinton Administration, which put extensive pressure on the Ehud Barak government in Israel to abandon the South Lebanon Security Zone. Syria, instead of respecting its commitments to the US, prevented the Lebanese army from deploying in the south and allowed Hezbollah to fill the vacuum with 10,000 Iranian rockets, in order to blackmail, terrorize and pressure the State of Israel in every Middle East initiative.

This surprise move by the Clinton Administration foreshadowed the strategic choice for all Islamic terrorist organizations, from Hamas and Hezbollah to al-Qaida - to increase their terror and military attacks against Israel and the US in order to guarantee an Islamic superiority against Western influence in the Middle East.

Winning the war against terrorism requires the US to allow Israel to rectify Clinton's errors by reversing the equation in Southern Lebanon, leading up to Beirut installing a pro-Western government in Lebanon, free from Syrian-Hezbollah influence. And let this be accomplished even at the expense of striking the Syrian military and changing the nature of this regime, which has been practicing terrorism against the free world for almost three decades.

The military cooperation between Israel and a free Lebanon should be reevaluated, reconstructed and consolidated, to stabilize the area against fundamentalism.

3- Israel should be authorized to act and not react. This peace was imaginary and only existed in Clinton's imagination. All the pro-Oslo groups in Israel and in the US exerted pressure on Israel to forge a peace agreement between Israel and Palestinian radicals. This is the cause that fueled all the violence in the Middle East. This negative policy should be reversed.

[Sojourner]

Originally Posted by Rick

Why are we talking about Bill Clinton? He's yesterday's news. We have been led by Bush and Co. for nearly a decade. We are living their promises right now...

Because we now have a "democratic congress" that was supposed to "reverse the trend" and is doing little or nothing to prove that THEIR side is any better!

Not to mention he was in charge of the PREVIOUS administration who messed us up so badly! If you want us to just stick to the CURRENT administration, I suggest you re-name this forum the "bash President Bush" forum!

[shamaal]

Originally Posted by Sojourner

Here's some Clinton mistakes for you:

Clinton's Red Herring: The Accusations of Congressional Isolationism

Ooh... this one's precious!

An opinion piece written about the Clinton administration halfway through his first term. Let's look at some of the charges:

Congressional efforts to reorganize the State Department, curb wasteful development assistance, and prevent the United States from participating in failure-prone United Nations peacekeeping missions have been portrayed by the President as a "frontal assault" on presidential authority and as the "most isolationist proposals in 50 years."

We all know how well this worked out recently.

His rhetoric masks actions that are potentially far more isolationist in their consequences than anything proposed by Members of Congress. Clinton's foreign, defense, and trade policies reflect both a dangerous inconsistency and the lack of any coherent national strategy. They are dramatically weakening America's capability to project military power overseas, undermining U.S. alliances, inflaming protectionist sentiments at home and abroad, and squandering America's credibility.

The current administration has shown us how it should be done.

For pete's sake, please read these opinion hit pieces before posting.

[Sojourner]

Then remove me from the boards, if you can't take these as legitimate gripes! I am tired of presenting evidence and having YOU discredit it based on, "it's not relevant!"

[shamaal]

Originally Posted by Sojourner

Here's something else for you to consider:

"The Deep Ocean Energy Resources (DOER) Act will correct the mistakes of the Clinton administration, which failed to set price thresholds that would ensure royalties would be paid in times of high oil and gas prices for oil and gas leases in 1998 and 1999. This Clinton Administration mistake cost taxpayers billions of dollars. The oil companies haven't paid a dime in royalties from those leases to the rightful owner of the oil- the American people."

Another good one, although I admit this one's a little more difficult to follow unless one tracks these things. I'm working off of memory here, so feel free to question specifics.

During the the Clinton administration the DOE auctoned off drilling rights on the Outer Continental Shelf. When the time came to draw up the contracts for the winners, the subject of royalty payments when oil exceeded a threshold was left out of the contract. Whether malfeasance or incompetence was never publically established. Depending on one's conspiratorial bent it was either a conservative or liberal plot, I suspect plain old incompetence. You may recall this being one of the Democrat first 100 days piece of legislation.

The DOER act was an attempt by federalists to supercede state legislation restricting offshore drilling through the enactment of federal law. You can make your own call regarding whether oil company profits should supplant state's rights. But in the end the act was watered down.

I don't know where you got the quote from, but it sounds like this person supported at least one item of the Democrat first hundred days legislation gimmick.

Should anyone want to discuss energy policy, I'm game. But show some intellectual honesty and have an opinion please, other than cut and pate Democrat Bad - Republican Good.

[Sojourner]

Oh! I get it! YOU can cut and paste anything YOU want and have that be a valid opinion but, God forbid that anyone else should do it! That IS my opinion! Clinton depleted the reserves we had during his administration, forestalling an "energy crisis," which was inevitable. Unfortunately, that energy crisis is happening NOW, instead of during his administration.

Like I said, if you are going to play the game that way, I want no part of it! I think this will be the last time I post and I will leave you to your "President Bush bashing!" Mind you, I don't agree with all of his policies but I'll be d*mned if I will agree with people who find no fault in what the dumbocrats have done in the past! <